Into the Patentverse: Web 3.0, Blockchain, Cryptocurrency, and NFTs

“Metaverse” is the buzziest of the buzzwords in tech today and will soon be joining the ranks of “AI” and “ML” as requisite keywords in the next generation of pitch decks and patent applications. But what are the core components of the Metaverse? And what are their implications in the world of intellectual property? The Patently Strategic Podcast will be exploring this topic over the course of several upcoming episodes.

We begin our exploration with Web 3.0. While it may prove to be the next great tech revolution, the broad shape and definition of the Metaverse itself is still more firmly baked in science fiction than in commercial tech reality. Many of its core building blocks, however, are likely right in front of our eyes (or headsets, perhaps). History shows that most major technology revolutions are rarely leaps, but instead evolutionary products of incremental steps, composed of many existing building blocks, met with market readiness. The Web 3.0 innovations of blockchain, cryptocurrency, and NFTs that are taking shape in front of us will no doubt be among these essential building blocks.

This third phase of the internet also poses some of the most interesting questions for the world of IP. What will the impact be on digital property rights in a secure marketplace, governed by smart contracts? How will copyrights play in digital worlds with their own art and governance? Is there merit in considering a new type of protection category outside of patents and copyrights? 

In our very first IPWatchdog episode, Kristen Hansen, Patent Strategist and software patent guru here at Aurora, leads a discussion along with our all star patent panel, digging into:

⦿ The fundamentals of blockchain, cryptocurrencies, and NFTs – and why the hype
⦿ The state of the technology
⦿ Questions around what web evolution, blockchain, and NFT technology means for IP ownership
⦿ And strategies for protecting blockchain and cryptocurrency innovations

Kristen is also joined today by our always exceptional group of IP experts including:

⦿ Dr. Ashley Sloat, President and Director of Patent Strategy at Aurora
⦿ David Jackrel, President of Jackrel Consulting
⦿ Shelley Couturier, Patent Strategist and Search Specialist
⦿ Daniel Wright, Patent Strategist

** Resources **

⦿ Show Notes: https://www.aurorapatents.com/blog/new-podcast-into-the-patentverse-vol-1
⦿ Apply to come work with us: https://www.aurorapatents.com/careers.html

** Follow Aurora Consulting **

⦿ Home: https://www.aurorapatents.com/
⦿ Twitter: https://twitter.com/AuroraPatents
⦿ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/aurora-cg/
⦿ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/aurorapatents/
⦿ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aurorapatents/ 

And as always, thanks for listening! 

---
Note: The contents of this podcast do not constitute legal advice.

Transcript

WEBVTT

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Good day and welcome to the Patently Strategic Podcast, where we discuss all things at

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the intersection of business, technology, and patents. This podcast

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is a monthly discussion amongst experts in the field of patenting. It is for inventors,

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founders and IP professionals alike, established or aspiring.

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In today's episode, our experts take on the future of the Web

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Metaverse. It's the buzziest of the buzzwords in tech today,

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and will soon be joining the ranks of AI and ML as requisite keywords

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in the next generation of pitch decks and patent applications.

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But what are the core components of the Metaverse, and what are their implications

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in the world of intellectual property? The Patently Strategic Podcast will

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be exploring this topic over the course of several upcoming episodes,

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but we begin our journey today with Web 30,

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the third major iteration of the Internet. While it may prove to be the

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next great tech revolution, the broad shape and definition of the Metaverse itself

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is still more firmly baked in science fiction than in commercial tech

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reality. Many of its core building blocks, however, are likely right

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in front of our eyes or headsets. Perhaps history

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shows that most major technology revolutions are rarely leaps,

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but instead evolutionary products of incremental steps composed

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of many existing building blocks met with market readiness. The Web

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30 innovations of blockchain, cryptocurrency, and NFTs

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that are taking shape in front of us will no doubt be among these essential

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building blocks. With an ability to touch both our physical and virtual worlds,

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cryptocurrencies could form the monetary basis for all economic activity

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in the Metaverse NFTs make it possible for unique items to

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exist and assets to be exclusively owned in the digital realm.

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The very foundations and infrastructure for the Metaverse in its virtual worlds

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could be built on blockchain technology.

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Perhaps the Metaverse is simply how we experience the third major phase of

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the web. Or maybe in its purest, most decentralized form, the Metaverse

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is built entirely on top of it. In any case, it's hard to imagine a

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future where the two are not inextricably linked.

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This third phase of the Internet also poses some of the most interesting questions

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for the world of intellectual property. What will the impact be on digital property rights

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in a secure marketplace governed by smart contracts? How will copyrights

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play in digital worlds with their own art and governance? Is there merit in considering

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a new type of protection category outside of patents and copyrights?

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In our very first IP Watchdog episode, Kristen Hansen,

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patent strategist and software patent guru here in Aurora,

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leads a discussion along with our all star patent panel, digging into the

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fundamentals of blockchain, cryptocurrencies, and NFTs and why the hype the

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current state of the technology. Questions around what Web evolution,

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blockchain and NFT technology means for IP ownership,

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and critical strategies for protecting blockchain and cryptocurrency

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innovations. The first half hour of this episode is the best, most succinct

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understandable overview I've personally heard on blockchain,

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crypto, N FTS, and the evolution of the web. What follows

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is a wonderful conversation around potential IP world impacts and

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some very practical tips on drafting strategies and working with inventors

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who are innovating in these spaces. Kristen is also joined

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today by our always exceptional group of IP experts,

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including Dr. Ashley Sloat, President and director of

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patent strategy here at Aurora, David Jackrel, President of

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Jackrel Consulting, Shelley Couturier, patent strategist and search specialist,

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and Daniel Wright, patent strategist. And one final administrative note

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before joining the panel, we're hiring. If you'd like to join our growing team

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and participate in great conversations like these, go to aurorapetance.

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Comcareers to learn more and apply. We'll also include that

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link in the show notes. All right, without further Ado,

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take it away, crypto crew. All right. And we'll let

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Kristen take it away and educate us

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on okay, perfect. All this good stuff,

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highly relevant. Hot topic. Every time I turn on the business

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news or whatever, it's talking about my

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tanked, crypto.

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What's the future? Well, I'm hoping to do

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a little bit of a tutorial, too, because some of this stuff I knew,

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but there were so many things that I went, oh, I had no idea.

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I thought this group might appreciate that having you go in

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and out of software or you don't do software full time, it's kind

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of nice to get a quick primer. Absolutely.

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Okay. So the overview that I'm going to go through,

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blockchain and cryptocurrency, why so much hype? We'll talk

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about the state of the technology, and we'll talk about protecting these types of innovations.

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So why are you seeing all this cryptocurrency and

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blockchain tech out there in the last few years? And the short

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answer is actually trust and trust

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issues with digital money have really been overcome.

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And the long answer to that is they've overcome using blockchain

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because blockchain actually gives you a cryptographic

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way to store and use and access data. And so

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I will go into what each is and how they interact.

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But basically, digital currency has been

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just distrusted. It has not had a very centralized

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way or view. And with blockchain, it can have that now.

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And so all you've seen is cryptocurrency,

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cryptocurrency, cryptocurrency. And nobody really knows

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exactly how it works or what it is, but they want it.

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Like I said, it's very secure. It's decentralized.

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There's really no third party meddling here. It's not

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underwritten like the Department of treasury, gold and

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cash, just a different exchange. And the

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decentralization of this means no government, no banks,

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no data providers, no Facebook and Google in your inbox or

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in your business. I think there will be ways

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that these companies will glam onto these technologies and offer kind

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of a hybrid model, but we haven't seen that yet.

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Where you have it's convenient to have Google provide you

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this, but Google is not going to look at certain things, even though

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they say that they're not looking. They may in

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other realms with these realms, you may get something a little more semi

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private than you have today.

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And then identity masking it actually is a way

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to perform things in the digital

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money world without really showing

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your identity. You're not a user who has an account at

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a bank with a name and a Social Security number. This is really different.

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This is more like an on screen username that

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you came up with is tied to sudo sort

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of account number. And it couldn't be tied to a wallet

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that knows a little bit more about you. But none of those things

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are connected in a way that shares data. That way

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they're kind of siloed. So that can be good and bad, of course.

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Right. If you mask your identity, you might have some government problems,

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tax problems. You might be hiding drug money. Right.

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So overall, what is blockchain? Blockchain tech

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actually allows multiple parties to transact in a peer to peer manner.

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And this is truly without a third party

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bank or government or company entity overseeing that peer

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to peer network. If you have an email account that is owned by Google,

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Google can oversee all of that. They try not to look into that.

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They don't capture that data appropriately and

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mine it because it's your personal email. You're using

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your quotes, right? I am.

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Because they have access to it. What they're doing with it,

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they're not telling us. Right, right. And that's

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all the cost of doing business as a consumer

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who wants ease of use. Right. I want Google to set this up for me.

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I want Facebook to set this up for me because I don't have the

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time to figure it out myself. I just want the account and I just want

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to do the things associated with the account. And that's very traditional

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and it's very consumer forward and convenient.

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But there are some issues with that pop up and blockchain

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is a way to solve some of those issues

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by decentralizing that account entirely

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by it's immutable, which basically means it's unchangeable

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over time. If you do a transaction, you can't undo that

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transaction. If you pay somebody cryptocurrency using

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a blockchain technology, it gets time stamped

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and logged in the blockchain. And to

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undo that, that person has to pay you back in

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yet another transaction which gets verified and timestamp

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and put in the blockchain. But you cannot modify and

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change that blockchain by removing it's just additive.

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That's very interesting from

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a security standpoint, because that means in

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order to actually hack that,

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if you're going to change one block in the chain,

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everyone else in there would immediately know that that had been tampered with

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because you're passing these chains around in order to verify

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transactions. And so if hackers wanted to actually corrupt a

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blockchain system, they would actually need to change every block in the chain and

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change that across all the distributed versions of that chain,

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because one piece of blockchain is let's look

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at the network of people. Let's create a ledger.

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Let's use a hash to let people connect to that ledger, and let's

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log in that ledger everything that goes on. And in order to approve

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everything that goes on in that ledger, we want some sort of unanimous or some

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sort of quorum amongst our members that say this can happen.

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And so because of that quorum and that distribution,

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this is super secure. The other piece of

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this is blockchain is programmable. And that

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means it's actually got programs stored within

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the blockchain that execute basically when

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predetermined conditions are met. So you can imagine that there's

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probably a lot of inventions coming down the pike about that. Where I

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have an algorithm. It runs this way. Oh, by the way, I put it in

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the blockchain. Right. So that makes it kind of patentably interesting

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until it doesn't. Right. Until everyone's doing that. Like AI

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and ML. Yes.

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There's a unanimousness to this. Like I indicated,

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all network participants really agree to the validity of each record

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in the blockchain. And I can get into this later. But part

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of what that looks like is proof of work. And if

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I'm confirming that particular things and I

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don't have to confirm it as a user, but my account would confirm it by

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automatic comparison. So if I'm participating in that

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unanimous checking process, I can get paid by proof

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of work, which is just a minor little amount.

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But it means that I am part of the network. I am approving in

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the network, and I am continuing

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to use the network.

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The other part of this, I think I called this out as well.

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It's distributed. So this is a digital ledger technology.

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And a digital ledger technology can be anything from an Excel file

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to a list of cryptographically curated

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data. And the way they use this and distribute this

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is interesting because it really does go to every member of the network,

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every peer in the peer to peer network. Right. And they

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do that instead of passing this upward to a Google

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or a Facebook or a Twitter to verify things.

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And the other thing is anonymous. Like I said, they don't know your

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identity. Your username can be some pseudonym.

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It does not have to be you as a person. It could also be

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personas. Right. So maybe I have a work persona and

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a life persona. Right. This is my

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personal email and this is my work email. And they both have different personas

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when I access blockchain services.

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Okay. In that same vein, what is cryptocurrency?

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So cryptocurrency is also decentralized in that it uses

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blockchain and it does pass around kind

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of the idea of, is this okay to make this transaction?

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Can I transfer this to this person?

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Are they trustworthy? Are they able to

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confirm that they are part of this network and that they have an account or

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they have a digital wallet, right. And so you've seen

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these, I put it just a quick flip up there. Litecoin Ethereum

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coin, Bitcoin, ripple coin. There's many more.

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But in the end, cryptocurrency is data with a

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value and an address. It is no more than that.

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It has a financial value because of how that it

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was set up. But it's data with a value and an address.

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Transactions completed using crypto are maintained

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in a public ledger. So a blockchain.

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And because of that, they're super secure. They are checked and

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rechecked and they are very hard to hack. So the

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issue with people saying, oh, it's fake currency and it's

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really not like the same as cash or the underwritten gold of

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the US Treasury, that is true.

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But it has a different way of being

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confirmed in a different way of being restauranty. And it's

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just a different exchange mechanism. So as soon as we start to

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see it that way and see it used for certain industries that way,

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it may become a little bit more mainstream and understood

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in what we are doing. But as a side,

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in order to get cryptocurrency, you have to have a digital wallet.

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And in order to get cryptocurrency in that digital wallet,

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you actually use real money. Okay. So you can purchase cryptocurrency

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mining, though, for a while, too. I know how common that is now.

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But there was mining, though, too, right? Yes. You can buy certain equipment

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and it would essentially mine Bitcoin

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or whatever. Yes. So the other piece of that mining that

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Ashley says that could be from actively

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mining something and problem solving to get paid in

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tokens or in cryptocurrency coins.

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And another piece of that mining could be if

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I'm going to confirm what's going on in

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the ledger itself, maybe I'm going to solve a small

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puzzle piece and then for solving that,

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I will get paid a small rate, a pittance of

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crypto coin for doing that. So there's other

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ways to make money. But truly, if you want to trade it or you

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want to do something in large value, you usually exchange

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real money into cryptocurrency and it's in the stock

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market. So it can change the value can change just

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like real money and then

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financial transactions performed without the help of a third party. So again, no banks,

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no government. If you're using an application,

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it's really not a company

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owned application for the purpose of owning what you are using it for.

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So they don't own your crypto. They don't own your money, right.

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They don't own anything that means money.

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So we'll cover it in a second. But NFT would be

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kind of a version of cryptocurrency that isn't

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financial per se.

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So cryptocurrency features, you can imagine the pros or the secure

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transactions. No permission needed to use. You just download an app and

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you're able to use it. Get a wallet. Right.

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They're fast. They're like under two minutes beginning

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to end anywhere in the world. The locations of the participants

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is just completely irrelevant. You can do this with anyone in the world.

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Your identity can be hidden in the same way and there is no

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physical form. It is all virtual and no central banking system.

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And some of these are kind of as of yet. I can see maybe

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we would get some hybrids out there in the future, but this

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is how it works today.

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And of course cons, they're completely irreversible.

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You do get one kind of trigger that says,

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Are you sure? Right, if you want to create this transaction or perform

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this transaction. But once you've done that, they're irreversible.

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And like I said, you have to get that other person to pay you back.

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If you've purchased something and you want the money back, that sort of thing.

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There is a public transparency of the transaction details and

17:06.504 --> 17:11.230
it isn't in full and it isn't easily kind of discerned.

17:11.730 --> 17:16.430
A distributed ledger is public. It usually is just printed

17:16.490 --> 17:19.994
up to a server and it is publicly viewable

17:20.042 --> 17:23.782
and readable. But the beauty of it is you can't access it and do anything

17:23.856 --> 17:27.490
with it without the hash, which is just a piece,

17:27.660 --> 17:31.426
just a key that you can access the network itself with

17:31.548 --> 17:35.662
and without the trust of the network. So even though you can see numbers and

17:35.676 --> 17:39.058
data and things, you don't see what the transactions mean and what they

17:39.084 --> 17:42.646
actually did, it's just stored cryptographically, stored data,

17:42.708 --> 17:45.862
I guess. But if somebody could get

17:45.876 --> 17:48.898
a hold of that and figure out what you were doing with a lot of

17:48.924 --> 17:52.354
effort, they may be able to get in there

17:52.392 --> 17:56.086
and act like they are part of

17:56.268 --> 18:00.190
the network itself and that they are

18:00.240 --> 18:03.842
looking to provide pieces to the consensus.

18:03.986 --> 18:07.874
And if they do it in a way that is against three quarters

18:07.922 --> 18:11.638
of the people there, they might influence outcomes. So if they put

18:11.664 --> 18:15.154
in there, I don't trust this transaction nine times a day.

18:15.312 --> 18:18.842
They might be blocking transactions that are true and good, but they're

18:18.926 --> 18:22.462
blocking them from occurring, which could be a problem, right?

18:22.476 --> 18:26.030
You're blocking payments from happening. You're blocking transactions

18:26.090 --> 18:29.690
from occurring like they should. There are ways to influence

18:29.750 --> 18:33.242
networks like that as being part of the network and being just a malicious

18:33.326 --> 18:37.570
actor. And you can do that by seeing

18:37.620 --> 18:40.978
this public piece and guessing at what it

18:41.004 --> 18:44.458
would be for who's using it, and then trying to be part of that

18:44.484 --> 18:48.154
group. So there's a lot of theft of

18:48.192 --> 18:52.346
identity and just distrust

18:52.418 --> 18:55.922
involved there with anybody new coming in. And that's

18:55.946 --> 18:58.906
why there's all these checks, to make sure people are part of the system,

18:58.968 --> 19:02.278
that they are appropriately vetted and that

19:02.304 --> 19:05.520
they have the correct hash keys, anything, right.

19:06.870 --> 19:10.274
And then the other piece of user base behavior, the tracing

19:10.322 --> 19:13.510
and tracking, it's kind of difficult and it could be

19:13.620 --> 19:17.002
a Con. Just if there's theft, if there

19:17.016 --> 19:20.578
are problems going on, tax evasion, things like

19:20.604 --> 19:24.374
that. And by the way, if you make money in cryptocurrency,

19:24.422 --> 19:27.600
you do need to put that on your tax form.

19:27.990 --> 19:31.200
Well, I don't think there's any problem with that right now.

19:32.070 --> 19:34.140
Yeah, nobody's making any money.

19:35.850 --> 19:38.698
Okay. And I alluded to this a little bit, but here's a picture graph that

19:38.724 --> 19:42.430
just helps show you how changes are made on a blockchain.

19:43.170 --> 19:46.678
So at the far left person a wants to make

19:46.704 --> 19:50.230
a change to the blockchain. They create that change,

19:50.340 --> 19:54.062
they use the hash to do it, and this change will create a new block.

19:54.206 --> 19:57.758
This block is actually broadcast all the computers on the distributed network

19:57.794 --> 20:01.438
from peer to peer there. And those computers approve or disapprove the

20:01.464 --> 20:04.654
change if it's unanimous or if it's set up to be

20:04.752 --> 20:08.662
a consensus rules where you have a

20:08.676 --> 20:11.398
good majority or whatnot, depending on how it's set up,

20:11.544 --> 20:15.142
they approve it, and then the new block is actually added to

20:15.156 --> 20:19.478
the chain and it's permanent. So it's really straightforward.

20:19.634 --> 20:22.690
It's very clear on how this happens,

20:22.860 --> 20:26.326
where you will get lost when you get an inventor reading this stuff to you

20:26.388 --> 20:30.158
is in the data and in all of the rigmarole

20:30.194 --> 20:33.514
that goes into the cryptography and the back and forth going

20:33.552 --> 20:35.962
on, it's usually not clear.

20:36.156 --> 20:39.478
So when I pull inventions like this, and I've only done three

20:39.504 --> 20:43.042
or four myself, but I have been very motivated to

20:43.056 --> 20:46.558
say, let's go through a flow chart, let's do

20:46.584 --> 20:50.218
a transaction. What happens in your system so that I can see

20:50.364 --> 20:53.758
if it's different than a typical blockchain system and so that

20:53.784 --> 20:57.058
I can see where each piece of data is

20:57.144 --> 21:00.754
being used and how much importance put

21:00.792 --> 21:04.042
on it. Because if it's just a hash, it's just a

21:04.056 --> 21:07.874
hash. And if you haven't created any interesting data structure

21:07.922 --> 21:11.402
that's new in the industry, I don't care. We'll just call it a hash

21:11.426 --> 21:15.358
and be done with it. But if there's something new about it, it's another piece

21:15.384 --> 21:19.078
of invention that we have to dig into. So by making them

21:19.104 --> 21:22.198
go through a flow chart themselves and go

21:22.224 --> 21:25.920
through one transaction manually, it helps that process.

21:29.430 --> 21:33.214
One of the applications I had written years ago ended up with so

21:33.312 --> 21:37.082
many figures in it, just showing how the data moved

21:37.106 --> 21:40.958
around. And it was 2019.

21:41.054 --> 21:44.446
So it wasn't brand new crypto and blockchain tech,

21:44.508 --> 21:48.360
but it was newer and newish. So we didn't know

21:48.690 --> 21:52.294
what would be interesting and what would be patentable and what was

21:52.332 --> 21:56.254
out there. It was just too difficult at the time to figure out the

21:56.292 --> 21:59.638
search structure and the prior art and who was

21:59.664 --> 22:02.782
doing what. A lot of it was done in China first.

22:02.856 --> 22:06.370
And so you've got a lot of Chinese art that isn't available quite yet

22:06.420 --> 22:09.610
because it was in public. So it was kind of messy.

22:12.010 --> 22:15.026
That first one is not through the patent system. So I have no idea if

22:15.028 --> 22:17.800
I did it right, did it wrong, can fix it, whatever.

22:20.110 --> 22:24.638
Okay. And so a cryptocurrency coin example here to

22:24.664 --> 22:28.298
push this through a blockchain with crypto, just so you understand kind of

22:28.324 --> 22:31.538
how that could happen. You would start with the

22:31.564 --> 22:34.446
initial creation of a coin, like a Bitcoin,

22:34.578 --> 22:37.734
and every transaction would be confirmed and stored in a ledger.

22:37.782 --> 22:42.054
So a blockchain, and that involves identical

22:42.222 --> 22:45.498
copies of that transaction that are distributed among

22:45.534 --> 22:48.650
peers, maintaining this public blockchain.

22:49.090 --> 22:53.090
And it's not just the transaction, it's the entire ledger every

22:53.140 --> 22:56.680
time, by the way, that goes out, typically. And it's large,

22:58.450 --> 23:01.754
but the way digital data

23:01.792 --> 23:05.294
works today, it's no big deal that it's that large, but it is

23:05.332 --> 23:07.730
large and it gets larger with each transaction.

23:10.310 --> 23:14.482
That actually public ledger, though it doesn't include information about real world identities

23:14.566 --> 23:18.762
of owners of the coin. It's just basically an address,

23:18.956 --> 23:22.554
kind of similar to an account number, but it's like a data address,

23:22.712 --> 23:26.660
and it's a balance of what the coin is for each account.

23:27.230 --> 23:31.378
And then the digital wallets themselves actually use encrypted electronic

23:31.414 --> 23:35.350
signatures, and they serve as kind of the cryptographic proof

23:35.530 --> 23:38.658
that this transaction originated at this owner of the

23:38.684 --> 23:43.374
wallet. Right. And then to

23:43.412 --> 23:46.938
record transaction to the public ledger. This is actually getting into

23:46.964 --> 23:50.274
the mining aspect. So miners are really

23:50.372 --> 23:53.838
known as kind of decentralized computing systems that are

23:53.864 --> 23:57.390
participating to support the public ledger. And that

23:57.440 --> 24:01.890
means everyone on the network could be a minor and

24:01.940 --> 24:05.674
they would approve the transaction by working to solve some sort of increasingly

24:05.722 --> 24:07.100
complex problem.

24:08.870 --> 24:12.298
And the first minor would solve a puzzle and add a block representing

24:12.334 --> 24:16.126
the transaction. You can see how it can get kind of complex

24:16.198 --> 24:19.974
with what you have to do in order to mine. And there are

24:20.012 --> 24:23.838
different ways of mining that's just one way. And then

24:23.864 --> 24:26.478
once the block is mined and added to the ledger itself,

24:26.564 --> 24:29.986
everything's been approved, and all conforming transactions

24:30.058 --> 24:34.278
are permanent. The miner who actually helped to

24:34.364 --> 24:38.250
approve the transaction is rewarded with a small transaction fee.

24:38.570 --> 24:41.286
And that is the proof of work.

24:41.468 --> 24:44.938
Okay. So if you hear proof of work or you hear proof of stake,

24:45.094 --> 24:48.402
proof of stake would be I've bought in enough that I am a

24:48.416 --> 24:51.822
member and I have a stake in this network. So there are a couple of

24:51.836 --> 24:54.810
ways to do that, and you'll see these through the industry.

24:55.910 --> 24:59.406
Okay. Next definition. And I hope last for you.

24:59.528 --> 25:02.938
What is an NFP? That's a non bungable token.

25:03.094 --> 25:07.042
And an NFP could be a piece of unique digital artwork,

25:07.126 --> 25:10.726
a domain name, a rare book, an ingame item,

25:10.858 --> 25:13.914
a unique sneaker in a limited run fashion line,

25:14.072 --> 25:17.698
an event ticket or coupon, an essay, a digital

25:17.794 --> 25:22.530
collectible of sorts, like a bitmap, a unique bitmap,

25:23.030 --> 25:26.986
but basically it's non fengible.

25:27.058 --> 25:30.522
And it's a nonfungible token because it's one

25:30.536 --> 25:33.774
of a kind. It represents a real world item or like

25:33.812 --> 25:37.698
digital content. And it also uses blockchain to digitally record

25:37.784 --> 25:41.838
transactions that occur with NFT. The main difference

25:41.924 --> 25:45.174
between an NFT and a cryptocurrency, though, there's no

25:45.212 --> 25:48.418
fungible trade amongst NFPs because they are unique

25:48.454 --> 25:52.306
representations of assets and no one NFP

25:52.378 --> 25:54.630
is exactly the same as another NFT.

25:55.430 --> 25:59.430
In cryptocurrency, one Bitcoin is exactly the same

25:59.480 --> 26:03.150
as another Bitcoin, and that just doesn't happen with NFT.

26:03.530 --> 26:07.066
So this becomes yet another way of trade.

26:07.258 --> 26:11.202
Okay. Yet another system of

26:11.336 --> 26:15.274
protecting and trading these items. On the left, the digital

26:15.322 --> 26:18.260
artwork, the domain name, a book. Right.

26:19.670 --> 26:23.358
Something, though, it looks like you are talking about this, because I think this

26:23.384 --> 26:26.958
is a frequently misrepresented bit about NFT is

26:26.984 --> 26:30.510
that you're not putting the item on the blockchain, you're putting

26:30.560 --> 26:33.606
a receipt on the blockchain that indicates something

26:33.668 --> 26:38.134
else that is often not necessarily supported.

26:38.242 --> 26:41.574
And so, sure, I've got a fancy thing on a blockchain that

26:41.612 --> 26:44.850
says I own this JPEG on a server somewhere.

26:45.830 --> 26:49.758
Yes. That is fundamentally different from having the shoe in

26:49.784 --> 26:53.538
real life. That is fundamentally different from having the JPEG on

26:53.564 --> 26:57.450
your hard drive. Because also, if you have that Jpg up

26:57.500 --> 27:01.074
on a public server that anyone can go look at, anyone can go

27:01.112 --> 27:04.580
right click or screenshot the image and keep it themselves.

27:05.270 --> 27:09.286
The only thing you're actually paying for is a receipt,

27:09.478 --> 27:12.894
not the thing itself. Yes. So you can imagine maybe

27:12.932 --> 27:15.786
like original artwork way back in the day,

27:15.968 --> 27:18.330
if we had Monets as NFPs,

27:19.130 --> 27:22.818
they would maybe grow even more so in cost

27:22.904 --> 27:27.022
and in value, because you could use that NFT

27:27.106 --> 27:30.310
structure to authenticate in an easier

27:30.370 --> 27:34.054
way than having the Museum involved. In a cheaper way than having the Museum involved

27:34.102 --> 27:36.500
and anybody else who would have to verify. Right.

27:37.130 --> 27:40.582
Okay. They are also deployed as individual chains

27:40.606 --> 27:44.074
of ownership of smart contracts, and they track a specific asset.

27:44.122 --> 27:48.006
So that's what I mean. If you track the artwork over time, you might

27:48.068 --> 27:51.750
create more value of that artwork because it is an original.

27:53.870 --> 27:57.706
And like Dan said, it shows chains of ownership.

27:57.838 --> 28:01.198
It shows the data that you own this piece, but it doesn't

28:01.234 --> 28:04.686
mean you physically have it in your possession. Yeah.

28:04.808 --> 28:08.326
And that's also where I'm going to protest the provenance,

28:08.398 --> 28:11.778
because, sure, you can make a digital receipt that says, I own

28:11.804 --> 28:15.802
a Monet, but then somebody can go steal the monetary.

28:15.826 --> 28:19.278
Yes. And you lose it.

28:19.304 --> 28:21.380
Right. Because it's stuff.

28:22.970 --> 28:26.578
Okay. So before we go back to those three concepts,

28:26.614 --> 28:29.814
I wanted to just give you this evolution of the Web. I thought this was

28:29.852 --> 28:33.318
interesting. This is from a podcast, The Tim Ferris Show.

28:33.464 --> 28:36.702
And it was interesting to see how the web had changed over time and how

28:36.716 --> 28:39.980
they categorized it. I really never categorized it.

28:41.390 --> 28:45.414
So Web 1.0 was basically 1990 to about four.

28:45.572 --> 28:49.386
It was open platform. Nobody really owned it or controlled it

28:49.508 --> 28:53.120
outside. Maybe the government. Right. And started as a government thing.

28:53.810 --> 28:57.258
And products and content were limited. There wasn't a lot of

28:57.284 --> 29:00.140
blogs and a lot of user created content.

29:01.430 --> 29:04.674
This is from a magazine. And I put it up here in a digital form

29:04.712 --> 29:08.002
on the web. And the advertisements on the Internet were banned

29:08.026 --> 29:11.050
at the time. And you have very few content creators.

29:11.110 --> 29:14.840
It just wasn't what it is today.

29:16.610 --> 29:20.370
Okay. And today this is about 2004 to now

29:20.420 --> 29:24.378
and maybe a few years from now. This is open and closed platform

29:24.464 --> 29:28.580
options. And what that means is in an open platform option.

29:29.030 --> 29:32.802
I've chosen to purchase my domain and

29:32.816 --> 29:36.402
I run things from my domain. I might use a

29:36.416 --> 29:39.560
Google or a Microsoft server setup to

29:40.310 --> 29:43.820
host, but I don't use Google services and I don't use

29:44.630 --> 29:48.486
Google's platform. So I'm not using Gmail, I'm not using Facebook to provide

29:48.548 --> 29:52.294
content. I'm not using Blogger as a basis

29:52.342 --> 29:56.082
to write my blog. I have got my own domain. The other side of

29:56.096 --> 29:59.838
that is a closed platform, and that is actually using

29:59.924 --> 30:03.406
some of the bigger names out of complete and total ease

30:03.538 --> 30:07.114
to be able to upload content quickly and easily

30:07.162 --> 30:10.220
and formatted without a whole lot of effort on the user part.

30:11.630 --> 30:14.818
And right now we are in the age of rich Internet applications.

30:14.854 --> 30:18.366
We've got interactive Google Maps, social media,

30:18.428 --> 30:22.134
Semantic Web. And in the future, we're looking at this Web

30:22.172 --> 30:25.246
3.0. This is something that is underway.

30:25.318 --> 30:28.834
You do see a little bit of this these days. It is likely

30:28.882 --> 30:32.730
going to be open platform, and it may or may not use blockchain.

30:33.230 --> 30:36.858
This decentralizes a lot of things. This takes the data

30:36.944 --> 30:40.774
put up there owned by users and data generators and fewer

30:40.822 --> 30:44.226
large companies. And another way

30:44.228 --> 30:48.138
to look at this. I put this together because I thought this was

30:48.164 --> 30:51.462
interesting, too. Web 1.0 was a read only.

30:51.596 --> 30:54.486
You had your Netscapes, your AOL, your Microsoft, Google,

30:54.548 --> 30:57.654
and it wasn't a true read only. You could make some changes, but it was

30:57.692 --> 31:01.362
typically read only. Web 2.0 is kind of a read write,

31:01.436 --> 31:04.954
and that's where we are now. You've got big Google, Apple, Facebook,

31:05.002 --> 31:08.742
Spotify, et cetera, Twitter. They own large

31:08.816 --> 31:12.078
portions of market share for what

31:12.104 --> 31:15.666
people are doing on the web and Web 3.0.

31:15.788 --> 31:18.862
This will likely be open and users will be able to build and orchestrate

31:18.886 --> 31:22.402
their own platforms and content a little bit easier. And they'll

31:22.426 --> 31:25.498
keep this out of the big data CEO power structure,

31:25.654 --> 31:29.434
which means data hoarding, narratives and censorship can be owned and operated

31:29.482 --> 31:33.402
by the people. So we'll see where we go. But I thought

31:33.596 --> 31:35.240
the evolution was interesting.

31:36.590 --> 31:40.114
So I have a question for the group. What does this Web evolution

31:40.222 --> 31:44.010
blockchain and NFT tech mean for IP ownership?

31:44.330 --> 31:48.018
Will we see some sort of change in the patent system for inventions that

31:48.044 --> 31:50.190
involve digital content and software?

31:51.590 --> 31:54.486
Are we going to see new protection art units? Are we going to see a

31:54.488 --> 31:58.078
new type of category outside of patents and copywriting? Dan,

31:58.114 --> 31:59.900
I bet you have an opinion on this.

32:05.370 --> 32:08.520
He may be stepped away. No, sorry.

32:10.110 --> 32:13.942
I'll be honest, I had tuned out for just a moment.

32:14.076 --> 32:17.134
Oh, no, for texting me, so I wasn't quite sure he called me out.

32:17.172 --> 32:20.820
Now I feel like I need to say something intelligent. I wasn't back

32:22.810 --> 32:26.858
in there. I'm sorry. And there's a lot of data there too, so I know

32:27.004 --> 32:30.518
it's getting late. No, I apologize. I don't mean to call

32:30.544 --> 32:34.034
you out on that, but my thought was, are you

32:34.072 --> 32:37.554
thinking we might see some changes in the patent

32:37.602 --> 32:41.490
system around the blockchain and NFP property ownership

32:41.550 --> 32:45.014
technology I had up here? Maybe new

32:45.052 --> 32:48.242
protection units, or maybe we would have a new category outside of patents and

32:48.256 --> 32:52.094
copywriting. Go ahead. Yeah,

32:52.252 --> 32:56.090
I see this. A new art unit I think makes

32:56.140 --> 33:00.054
definite sense with just the sheer market interest and number of people filing

33:00.102 --> 33:03.722
stuff on it. It would behoove the patent office to have and

33:03.736 --> 33:07.240
I'm honestly would be surprised if they don't have a new art unit already

33:07.870 --> 33:11.430
with the interest of it additional forms of intellectual

33:11.490 --> 33:14.714
property in response to this

33:14.752 --> 33:18.618
type of stuff. Like do we now have something Besides patents and Copyright that's

33:18.654 --> 33:23.746
specific to entries

33:23.938 --> 33:26.550
on the spreadsheet that is a blockchain?

33:28.430 --> 33:33.762
I'm not sure. Yeah, well, maybe kind

33:33.776 --> 33:37.398
of a transactional thing might be something different because

33:37.424 --> 33:41.118
you don't get a Copyright and

33:41.144 --> 33:44.958
I guess you could still kind of print maybe Ms. Right, because right

33:44.984 --> 33:49.050
now the Copyright system requires hard copies of things.

33:49.100 --> 33:52.734
I guess you can maybe still put NFT on a

33:52.892 --> 33:56.350
disk. The NFT is just a receipt.

33:56.470 --> 34:00.018
And so with the Copyright. So cool.

34:00.104 --> 34:03.502
You've got a unique image. I've got an NFT that's

34:03.526 --> 34:07.830
just somewhere on a spreadsheet that says my

34:07.880 --> 34:11.622
username string is associated with this bit of data

34:11.696 --> 34:16.158
that indicates the receipt towards we

34:16.184 --> 34:20.490
all just sort of agree that it indicates a receipt towards this unique image.

34:21.050 --> 34:25.854
I don't see how that is anything beyond like

34:25.892 --> 34:29.658
regular. If I wanted to go now print a bunch of copies of

34:29.744 --> 34:33.090
that and distribute that and sell those images,

34:33.470 --> 34:36.798
I don't quite see how that's anything independent from do

34:36.824 --> 34:40.662
I have the Copyright? I mean, perhaps you

34:40.676 --> 34:44.142
could write a human law that says a

34:44.156 --> 34:47.946
national law that says the

34:48.008 --> 34:51.658
people acknowledge this particular distributed

34:51.694 --> 34:55.940
ledger as indicating towards

34:56.750 --> 35:00.810
Copyright. So if you want to have the Copyright for

35:00.920 --> 35:04.534
a given piece of work, you must have somehow,

35:04.582 --> 35:08.454
but then you get over the whole anonymity of

35:08.492 --> 35:11.646
what the cryptography of the usernames is supposed to be.

35:11.828 --> 35:15.270
That okay, you must publicly let us know who you are,

35:15.380 --> 35:19.206
and you publicly must have visible on this blockchain your

35:19.268 --> 35:23.430
receipt that has a certain indication towards a given work of art.

35:23.540 --> 35:27.862
And if you satisfy that, then we all agree that you have Copyright

35:27.946 --> 35:30.870
towards the object indicated in your receipt.

35:31.670 --> 35:36.102
And then I don't see how that's any more helpful than just a

35:36.116 --> 35:39.450
Copyright. A Copyright. We the people agree

35:39.500 --> 35:42.980
to form a database that anyone can access

35:43.670 --> 35:47.180
of who owns the Copyright forgiven works of art,

35:48.530 --> 35:52.062
whether it's distributed or not. I think the bigger point

35:52.076 --> 35:56.010
that brings up, though, is that elements of Web

35:56.060 --> 35:59.958
Three are fundamentally in

35:59.984 --> 36:04.158
opposition to the

36:04.244 --> 36:08.046
general premise of the intellectual property system.

36:08.108 --> 36:11.838
Right. Because, as Dan points out, the whole intellectual property system is based

36:11.864 --> 36:15.802
on the idea that in exchange for some limited monopoly,

36:15.946 --> 36:19.758
some ownership. Right. Whatever I give

36:19.784 --> 36:23.206
to the public knowledge and share knowledge

36:23.278 --> 36:27.702
and information technology, whatever with the public in

36:27.716 --> 36:31.590
exchange for those rights. But the whole essence of aspects of Web

36:31.640 --> 36:34.954
Three, the blockchain elements,

36:35.062 --> 36:39.054
NFPs and things like that is all around anonymity or at least

36:39.152 --> 36:41.900
as much anonymity as you want to have with it.

36:42.890 --> 36:46.098
It seems like those two elements are kind of in opposition to

36:46.124 --> 36:50.000
one another. It's really interesting.

36:50.570 --> 36:54.462
I'm not a Copyright attorney. I wonder if

36:54.476 --> 36:58.150
an artist makes a physical painting

36:58.270 --> 37:02.118
their own painting, and then they sell that painting, the original painting to

37:02.144 --> 37:05.394
someone owns that painting. Can the owner of that

37:05.432 --> 37:08.900
painting make prints of that painting and then sell it?

37:09.470 --> 37:13.578
So does buying an original painting confer the Copyright to you?

37:13.724 --> 37:17.058
Or is the Copyright still owned by the owner or by

37:17.084 --> 37:20.338
the creator? By the artist owned by the creator.

37:20.374 --> 37:24.090
Because unless there's like a true assignment, if you think about it like I buy

37:24.140 --> 37:27.954
Cat and a Hat, that doesn't mean that I can take

37:27.992 --> 37:31.902
Cat in the Hat and decide to make a

37:31.916 --> 37:35.120
million copies of it and go sell. Right? Right.

37:36.350 --> 37:40.342
Some kind of work for higher provision or some kind of actual assignment.

37:40.486 --> 37:43.758
Right. Even if Dr. Seuss wrote down Cat

37:43.784 --> 37:46.878
in the Hat on some pieces of paper and you bought the original, doesn't mean

37:46.904 --> 37:50.550
that you can copy it and sell it. Right. Same thing,

37:50.660 --> 37:54.162
I think probably from logic would go from it

37:54.236 --> 37:58.002
would follow for an NFT, if you're buying an original piece of

37:58.016 --> 38:01.482
digital art, that doesn't give you the Copyright to it.

38:01.556 --> 38:06.982
Right? Right. If the

38:06.996 --> 38:10.860
creator of the work of art or the creative work,

38:12.210 --> 38:15.698
they can be copyrighted. But then again, they're also revealing

38:15.734 --> 38:19.306
who they are and the anonymity goes away assuming that they want to

38:19.308 --> 38:20.290
be anonymous.

38:23.950 --> 38:28.010
Digital art is infinitely reproducible

38:28.690 --> 38:32.526
to the easiest extreme. The fundamental difference between owning

38:32.658 --> 38:36.578
the Mona Lisa and a copy of the Mona Lisa is quite clear,

38:36.664 --> 38:40.120
I think, to all of us, because of the provenance and the history of

38:40.510 --> 38:44.006
the physical good that is the Mona Lisa versus a copy of

38:44.008 --> 38:47.618
the Mona Lisa. Right. Whereas it's just

38:47.644 --> 38:49.550
a JPEG or a PNG.

38:51.070 --> 38:54.578
It's an argument, I feel like, for and against NFT, because what

38:54.604 --> 38:58.442
NFPs do, in a way, is make it possible to have

38:58.516 --> 39:02.298
an original of a digital piece of art. Where otherwise

39:02.334 --> 39:05.990
what, are you going to sell someone's computer? No, but again, you need the

39:06.040 --> 39:09.302
art on. It doesn't make sense. You don't have the

39:09.436 --> 39:14.330
original. You have a receipt saying that I

39:14.380 --> 39:18.100
spent money towards this thing in a weird way. There is no

39:18.550 --> 39:19.610
original.

39:22.550 --> 39:26.362
I mean, this is my maybe naivete around the space because there's

39:26.386 --> 39:31.578
definitely some you

39:31.604 --> 39:35.490
have this receipt, but isn't there a way for you

39:35.540 --> 39:39.018
to view the thing that you have a receipt for, like even

39:39.044 --> 39:42.740
in some kind of digital, like in a digital wallet, you know what I mean?

39:43.250 --> 39:47.430
So putting the image itself on the blockchain would be

39:47.540 --> 39:50.922
absurdly. Wasteful a huge amount of data, slow everything

39:50.996 --> 39:54.978
down. So no one actually does that. What is commonly done is

39:55.004 --> 39:58.278
that there will be some sort of URL that can be readily or some

39:58.304 --> 40:01.782
string that can readily spit out just a link

40:01.916 --> 40:05.346
to some external hosting site, like room,

40:05.468 --> 40:09.850
essentially for you to view the thing except for it's on the public ledger

40:10.030 --> 40:13.378
so people can access it. And so also, you don't

40:13.414 --> 40:17.046
necessarily have control. You are trusting the

40:17.108 --> 40:21.006
host of the image that it will continue to be there.

40:21.188 --> 40:24.858
So hilariously. You could buy an NFT for something hosted on

40:24.884 --> 40:27.870
a site, you spend your money and then, oh,

40:27.920 --> 40:31.198
the company hosting it couldn't pay the server couldn't

40:31.234 --> 40:34.158
pay for the server space anymore. So it all gets pulled away.

40:34.304 --> 40:36.500
Now your URL indicates nothing.

40:38.150 --> 40:41.694
Yeah, I think this goes back to Kristen's first slide, pretty much, which is

40:41.732 --> 40:45.754
trust. You are trusting an artist,

40:45.802 --> 40:49.602
you're trusting the system that you're putting your money down and that

40:49.736 --> 40:53.454
everyone agrees that you own the quote, unquote original, whatever that

40:53.492 --> 40:56.878
means. You're right, Dan. Exactly. It's just a receipt. But there's

40:56.914 --> 41:00.260
this trust that's been built up and

41:01.010 --> 41:02.480
yeah, I don't know,

41:04.490 --> 41:09.550
a couple of random thoughts. I know we're almost done, but like cryptocurrency

41:09.610 --> 41:13.062
in general, there's a lot of people talking about it now. And what does it

41:13.076 --> 41:16.362
mean? What is it for and what is it really good for a lot of

41:16.376 --> 41:19.858
smart people, at least I don't have a super strong opinion

41:19.894 --> 41:23.478
either way. But a lot of smart people have said it's basically just the

41:23.504 --> 41:27.874
greater fool. There's no value inherent.

41:27.922 --> 41:31.326
There's no inherent value. And people argue back and forth about that.

41:31.448 --> 41:34.650
That's the real crux of the issue is their inherent value. So people

41:34.700 --> 41:38.430
argue about it. But NFTs and crypto, I think they're very

41:38.480 --> 41:43.054
interesting and sort of like revolutionary on one side from the economic

41:43.222 --> 41:46.746
kind of analysis of it. Like, what are these things really worth?

41:46.808 --> 41:50.214
Do they really have value? Do you really own something or not?

41:50.372 --> 41:53.482
From the patent side and the technology side, I actually think it's

41:53.506 --> 41:56.398
a lot more straightforward. You've got software,

41:56.554 --> 42:00.106
you've got encryption, you've got cryptography, you've got blockchain,

42:00.178 --> 42:04.254
you've got these real inventions, these real technical things that

42:04.292 --> 42:07.726
people are doing that you can look at and patent.

42:07.918 --> 42:11.514
So in that sense, no easier or

42:11.552 --> 42:14.960
harder than AI or ML or

42:15.650 --> 42:19.002
all the same issues with them. Not with 101,

42:19.076 --> 42:22.242
basically. Right. I think we'll be there for a

42:22.256 --> 42:26.434
crypto and blockchain. But I don't know, it's the controversy.

42:26.602 --> 42:29.418
If you will or the weirdness of them. I feel like it's more on the

42:29.444 --> 42:32.502
economic socioeconomic side of

42:32.516 --> 42:36.318
things, less on the technical and patent stuff that would

42:36.344 --> 42:39.786
be relevant for a patent. I think the one

42:39.848 --> 42:43.340
most interesting argument I've seen for

42:43.790 --> 42:47.038
NFTs, at least Cryptos and other Things NFT,

42:47.074 --> 42:50.878
is that it allows artists to potentially reap

42:50.914 --> 42:54.538
more benefit than they've historically been able to reap from their creative

42:54.574 --> 42:58.158
works. Right. Because people may be more willing to give

42:58.184 --> 43:02.062
them money in support of them through this mechanism.

43:02.146 --> 43:05.886
That's maybe more accessible or easier to find

43:05.948 --> 43:09.798
them than it would have otherwise been. And so I can

43:09.824 --> 43:12.934
now put my money and share my money with lots of different artists

43:12.982 --> 43:15.666
who I believe in support want to whatever.

43:15.848 --> 43:19.002
Whereas maybe they were less findable before.

43:19.076 --> 43:22.750
So that's an interesting aspect

43:22.810 --> 43:26.662
of the NFT. I'll say as someone who participates

43:26.746 --> 43:30.826
in a fair amount of online art production,

43:31.018 --> 43:34.102
publication discourse,

43:34.246 --> 43:37.794
exchange right now, NFPs are making

43:37.832 --> 43:41.146
it more complicated. You have to go through the rigor of setting up the wallet,

43:41.278 --> 43:44.862
setting up, getting all your hashes. You have to deal with

43:44.936 --> 43:48.618
the opaqueness to a certain extent. We're talking

43:48.644 --> 43:52.218
about how public and open the

43:52.244 --> 43:55.890
blockchain allows transactions to be. There are many

43:55.940 --> 43:59.326
new studies demonstrating how much of it is wash trading.

43:59.398 --> 44:02.698
There is far less of an interest than the people selling

44:02.734 --> 44:06.378
NFTs want artists to believe are there are many cases of

44:06.404 --> 44:10.218
artists going in trying to

44:10.244 --> 44:13.702
sell their art as NFPs. They find themselves overwhelmed

44:13.786 --> 44:17.554
by the entry costs of how you actually go and Mint

44:17.602 --> 44:21.150
your NFT. And then there's no actual

44:21.200 --> 44:24.846
market for it because the examples of things going at crazy

44:24.908 --> 44:28.306
prices. A lot of that is wash trading, where bad actors

44:28.378 --> 44:32.410
are selling it to themselves to fabricate seeming

44:32.470 --> 44:35.322
interest. On the other hand,

44:35.396 --> 44:39.406
there's already tons of ways to go celebrate and support the artists

44:39.478 --> 44:43.174
that you like. A lot of the artists who have public activity

44:43.222 --> 44:47.970
on the web, who have their open portfolios, they've got various

44:50.970 --> 44:54.610
web pages where you can throw with a credit card. It sounds like

44:54.660 --> 44:57.010
if you don't trust your credit card company, what are you going to do?

44:57.060 --> 45:00.502
But with credit card, with other already

45:00.576 --> 45:04.438
established digital payment systems, you can send them money.

45:04.584 --> 45:08.218
A lot of them have online merch stores. There are tons of ways to do

45:08.244 --> 45:11.962
that. And from a perspective on end, those have

45:11.976 --> 45:15.420
been far more healthy and successful for artists than

45:15.810 --> 45:19.318
trying to Mint NFTs and then sell them to

45:19.344 --> 45:22.906
a nonexistent audience. Okay, so it's kind

45:22.908 --> 45:26.086
of a difficult marketplace, you're saying? Yeah.

45:26.268 --> 45:29.446
Okay. So basically

45:29.508 --> 45:32.842
the strategy for these sorts of inventions, you're going to need to do

45:32.856 --> 45:34.870
a wider foreign filing.

45:36.750 --> 45:40.102
You want to do that because it actually has sales

45:40.176 --> 45:43.658
and in use occurrences as possible from any location. With a computing

45:43.694 --> 45:47.050
device, you're dealing with financial transactions which

45:47.100 --> 45:50.338
happen all over the world. And also one

45:50.364 --> 45:53.762
note, China is a huge player in inventions and companies for blockchain.

45:53.846 --> 45:56.170
So always file in China.

45:57.450 --> 46:01.802
And as far as what's out there right now, you've probably gotten thousands

46:01.886 --> 46:05.242
of blockchain or cryptocurrency sort of technology

46:05.376 --> 46:08.110
on file. There's not a whole lot allowed yet,

46:08.160 --> 46:11.542
maybe in the hundreds. So it's still an open market.

46:11.616 --> 46:15.238
So make sure you're mining those fields. If you have

46:15.264 --> 46:18.934
inventors who do things tangential to this and also

46:18.972 --> 46:22.574
litigation isn't super common yet, and as soon as somebody profits

46:22.622 --> 46:26.014
from it, these patents that will come. But right now

46:26.112 --> 46:29.290
it's kind of an open market. And then the other piece.

46:29.340 --> 46:33.022
Consider trade secrets before disclosing all your concepts in the patent application.

46:33.156 --> 46:36.698
This might be especially important if you do blockchain

46:36.734 --> 46:39.898
in a slightly different way if your cryptocurrency is new and

46:39.924 --> 46:42.550
different and functions differently than typical.

46:44.130 --> 46:47.278
When you're looking at the claims, this is going to look like method claims and

46:47.304 --> 46:50.578
system claims and computer readable medium claims, and they're all going

46:50.604 --> 46:53.582
to look very mirrored. You probably have a single method,

46:53.666 --> 46:57.394
a system that kind of copies that method, and a computer readable medium that

46:57.432 --> 47:00.060
also mirrors the method or system.

47:00.630 --> 47:04.478
And that is because I think you'll get a lot of restriction

47:04.514 --> 47:07.798
requirements if you do not do that in these fields. I think

47:07.824 --> 47:11.338
your claims would be different enough method wise that if you

47:11.364 --> 47:15.046
had two method claims that even were

47:15.108 --> 47:17.890
slightly different, I think you're going to get a restriction.

47:19.170 --> 47:22.382
Examples of potentially patentable core Technologies When you're

47:22.406 --> 47:26.170
interviewing inventors, you may see things like blockchain tech

47:26.220 --> 47:30.490
changes, distributed ledger changes, data structure differences.

47:31.050 --> 47:34.318
Remember, new data structures can be a way to

47:34.344 --> 47:37.706
get over a subject matter 101 rejection.

47:37.778 --> 47:42.158
So if you have a new data structure, describe it transaction

47:42.194 --> 47:45.082
protocols, processing and validation methods might be new.

47:45.216 --> 47:48.902
We've got digital wallet stuff and apps and software

47:48.926 --> 47:53.678
that might be new or work different than typical smart

47:53.714 --> 47:58.322
contract platforms, different ways of mining consensus methodologies

47:58.406 --> 48:01.690
services, applications of any of the bot

48:02.550 --> 48:05.674
It's software, and so it's wide open for

48:05.712 --> 48:06.670
combinations.

48:09.190 --> 48:12.762
Remember in the specification, get your subject matter eligibility

48:12.846 --> 48:16.358
stuff in there. It will happen. I don't see

48:16.384 --> 48:20.778
a way around this. You're adding business method, financial ideas,

48:20.934 --> 48:24.546
and software in general in like a package

48:24.618 --> 48:28.514
almost with these inventions. So I

48:28.552 --> 48:32.402
think you will see these rejections more often unless something changes in

48:32.416 --> 48:36.362
the landscape, but to avoid those. Building your descriptions for

48:36.376 --> 48:40.154
the advantages. Building your technical solutions to technical problems.

48:40.312 --> 48:44.260
Describe practical applications, describe improvements to technology,

48:44.590 --> 48:48.230
and add your specific results. Outcomes I don't always

48:48.280 --> 48:51.954
like to do this. Improvements to technology tends to denigrate prior

48:52.002 --> 48:54.474
art if you do them improperly.

48:54.642 --> 48:57.962
So be careful, but also get them in there for

48:57.976 --> 49:01.598
this type of technology because you will likely need to rely on

49:01.624 --> 49:05.450
them in office action responses and appeals.

49:06.550 --> 49:10.034
Example Advantages These inventions can maybe provide cost

49:10.072 --> 49:13.470
and error reduction, tamper resistance

49:13.590 --> 49:16.610
or security over conventional transactions,

49:16.990 --> 49:19.850
fraud deterrence over conventional transactions,

49:20.350 --> 49:24.410
and reduction in the errors of system failures over conventional transactions,

49:24.970 --> 49:27.902
and some of these might go the opposite way. So it just depends on what

49:27.916 --> 49:31.934
your invention would be. And then one

49:31.972 --> 49:34.970
last thing for the specification, adjust for open source.

49:35.650 --> 49:39.554
This software is typically open source. It is done so

49:39.592 --> 49:43.226
for a reason. It is in the public domain and

49:43.288 --> 49:46.420
you just want to be careful to cover in your application.

49:47.410 --> 49:51.794
Why is your innovation new or different? Or what problems that

49:51.832 --> 49:55.562
existed before did you solve and ensure you

49:55.576 --> 49:59.130
have included descriptions for aspects that are not part of the open source pieces?

49:59.190 --> 50:02.874
If you have several pieces that are not open source,

50:02.922 --> 50:06.062
make sure those are thoroughly described because you may need to

50:06.076 --> 50:09.482
rely on them. And the last thing that you

50:09.496 --> 50:13.134
can look at at your leisure, this was the patent I did in 2019

50:13.242 --> 50:16.838
patent application for Google. And it

50:16.864 --> 50:21.246
was basically about creating a self sovereign identity

50:21.318 --> 50:25.142
account and being able to host that account and

50:25.336 --> 50:30.014
let people control or not control that account without

50:30.172 --> 50:34.182
being a Google and Apple of Facebook. So this was a user

50:34.206 --> 50:37.818
owned account. They did their own thing. They used a distributed

50:37.854 --> 50:41.802
log technology here in the right hand corner. They used public keys and private keys

50:41.826 --> 50:44.918
for the crypto, and they had policies and permissions for their

50:44.944 --> 50:48.482
account. And basically they

50:48.496 --> 50:51.938
were able to set up a blockchain system for a

50:51.964 --> 50:55.718
user to own an account. This application in

50:55.744 --> 50:59.738
particular was about, can I provide access control? Can I

50:59.764 --> 51:02.966
provide device control and all using this account?

51:03.088 --> 51:06.566
Right. So maybe I have a building with a super, and the super

51:06.628 --> 51:09.760
owns three of the four

51:10.390 --> 51:13.818
apartments, and he wants to provide utilities and door

51:13.854 --> 51:18.090
locks and maybe rent payment possibilities.

51:18.150 --> 51:21.858
He can all do that through an account like this without being monitored

51:21.894 --> 51:26.258
by a third party and without having to rely on a third party too.

51:26.404 --> 51:29.982
This also means which can happen with a third party,

51:30.006 --> 51:33.458
but it means it can occur by

51:33.484 --> 51:37.538
the actual person who owns the account being able to provide access

51:37.624 --> 51:41.046
or provide things through the account to other users.

51:41.238 --> 51:45.270
So it's an interesting idea to have maybe an entire apartment

51:45.330 --> 51:49.658
building on the same network and being able to share

51:49.804 --> 51:53.140
and maybe share costs share.

51:54.190 --> 51:57.950
If I locked myself out, maybe my neighbor can unlock

51:58.270 --> 52:01.398
because I gave him permission earlier to unlock my door.

52:01.434 --> 52:05.260
Right, right. Things like that.

52:06.190 --> 52:10.646
Can I point out the irony of that application being

52:10.708 --> 52:14.150
owned by Google? Yes, you can.

52:14.260 --> 52:18.078
Believe me. So did the inventor. The inventor is just a brilliant

52:18.114 --> 52:21.700
UK man who does a lot of contracting for Google and

52:25.210 --> 52:28.610
just lovely the way he went through this.

52:28.780 --> 52:32.238
Every time he had a description, he would say, and unlike

52:32.274 --> 52:36.374
Google, he would describe his invention. And so it was

52:36.412 --> 52:39.950
great. It was great to see that even their engineering people thinking,

52:40.120 --> 52:43.910
yeah, back to the trusted environment.

52:45.670 --> 52:48.750
Yeah, exactly. Okay. Key takeaways

52:48.810 --> 52:52.334
are really just there's lots of innovations coming with blockchain web three

52:52.372 --> 52:56.130
might be an interesting growth step. And when drafting blockchains

52:56.250 --> 53:00.726
building help for yourself with that subject matter eligibility rejection

53:00.918 --> 53:04.058
content I mean, if it continues like it is,

53:04.084 --> 53:06.340
it will still be painful in this field.

53:08.930 --> 53:12.174
No end in sight. There no end in sight. All right, that's it.

53:12.212 --> 53:15.858
Any questions or comments? No, that was

53:15.884 --> 53:19.062
awesome. Good rundown of the space.

53:19.136 --> 53:23.250
Now when all the talking heads talk about these things now,

53:23.360 --> 53:26.806
I appreciate the nuance of the receipt

53:26.938 --> 53:30.980
versus the NFP the whole thing.

53:31.730 --> 53:34.940
I guess I understood the digital room thing, but I kind of thought,

53:36.290 --> 53:39.270
yeah, it was like way more accessible,

53:39.830 --> 53:44.142
potentially more controllable. So that's interesting. I didn't appreciate that.

53:44.336 --> 53:47.960
I didn't either. Thank you, Dan. Yeah,

53:49.430 --> 53:52.940
I told him earlier that it's happening. He already gone.

53:53.450 --> 53:56.010
Well, I think we're still recording.

53:59.730 --> 54:03.370
No worries. Well, thank you. All right,

54:03.420 --> 54:07.774
that's all for today, folks. Thanks for listening. And remember to check us out@aurorapatins.com

54:07.812 --> 54:11.294
for more great podcasts, blogs and videos covering all things patent

54:11.342 --> 54:14.326
strategy. And if you're an agent or attorney and would like to be part of

54:14.328 --> 54:18.178
the discussion or an inventor with a topic you'd like to hear discussed, email us

54:18.204 --> 54:21.998
at podcast@aurorapatins.com do remember that this podcast

54:22.034 --> 54:25.660
does not constitute legal advice and until next time, keep calm and patent on.